The Wheel of Time Re-read (currently reading - Lord of Chaos)

Melina Tashir

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I had never thought about the fact that Galad had a claim to the throne... But he would have one, and stronger than Elayne. Why was that never brought up?

To be honest, I don't think Rand thought much about Galad or Gawyn after meeting them that first time. Maybe he did a bit after he deduced who his mother was. But he never had much plans for the other two. As for why Elayne, I suppose because he was in love with her :waggle. What better way to say I love you than to give a kingdom to someone :p
 
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This is good. After many chapters of basically walking and talking, things are finally starting to happen in Fires of HEaven
Yes I think the last half dozen chapters have some of the most powerful scenes in the series at least from the Pre-Sanderson books.
 

Toral Delvar

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Chapter 46
Aviendha knows Rand enough to work out he was hoping to kill Couladin. She thinks he now should have no need for the sword
Aviendha channels the water hot so Rand can shave - why doesn't he? Is he too tired for saidin?
Are we supposed to be suspicious of Pevin
The Sis'waiman have started. The Aiel don't like talking about it so would rather ignore it
Blue eyes are rare in Tear
Rand mixes up the way he greets the high Lords, which increases their mistrust of each other. This seems to be his idea, not Moiraine's
After entering the throne room, a group of Cairhienin nobles and the Tairen high lords swear fealty to Rand
This was kind of an unventful chapter after the recent excitement
Chapter 47
Egwene visited Nynaeve's dreams but she didn't realise it was her - Egwene had told them this was possible, so I don't know why they didn't think she had finally managed it
Nynaeve and Elayne are bickering. I blame Nynaeve. She seems to like having someone to bicker with
Nynaeve is really annoying her, completely failing to take accountability for her own action and blaming Elayne for her own faults
they are being really slow here in not realising that Egwene is sneaking around behind the Wise One's backs
Nynaeve does want to be Aes Sedai, though she is telling herself it is so she can learn Healing
Juilin says "did you ever know a woman who listened to sense when she didn't want to" - I'm pretty sure we've seen a similar attitude from the women about men
Galad paid for a riverboat, and when the Prophet seized it, seized it back. This started a riot. Still, I'm with Galad on this
"Chin Akima's lost his head already" - literally? Probably not, as there would be no point saying "along with half his performers"
Luca offers marriage and babies to Nynaeve
OK, Elayne can be a bit arrogant, but expecting Cerandin to abandon everything and go with her is ridiculous, even by her standards. And why has Cerandin now decided that she doesnt think Elayne was a noble? We can look past her assumption that noble titles wouldn't still count - as a peasant, she probably had no idea how those things worked
It's even more ridiculous Birgitte not believing
 

Aduiavas Ida

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Yes, that is the inconsistency I mentioned, that Birgitte first calls her Daughter-Heir of Andor, but here doesn't believe it?

And I absolutely blame Nynaeve for the high tempers. Elayne is probably not an innocent "victim" in it, but as you will see in the next chapters, Nynave mentions a bit too often how the other women's temper are still high, whilst insisting that her own was not affected at all.

I must say I :facepalm at Galad, though I can't really blame him... This riot would have come anyway...
 

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Chapter 48
herb- healall
Only vague rumours of TarValon trouble have reached Samara - how long has it been?
Do we really need so many pages of packing?
We see Galad fight, efffortlessly slaughtering the mob. This part at least was interestn
There is some sort of tradition of giving alms on firstday
Galad warns Elayne and Nynaeve off Rand. I think by this time we know enough to realise that they are brothers
Chapter 49
Nynaeve isn't bothered that Neres is a smuggler,Elayne seems to take a personel objection
Neres doesn'tlike women, He does however have a family in Ebou Far
An ointment (mardroot oil)
The boat trip is also slow, but at least we meet Nicola, Marigan and Areina
Was there a real Marigan, or did Moghedien just come up with the entire story?
OK, it is amusing that Nynaeve thinks she can be a good example to Areina,but I don't really think anyone can be that oblivious
pokeleaf is used to wash the dye out of their hair
Nynaeve says she is tired of being a coward. This sort of thing annoys me from all of them except Mat. I find his "I'm not a hero" amusing - We get a sort of pay off later, when we learn that there are tales spreading about him and his heroics
Elaida is already messing up getting the Aes Sedai to return. Siuan has probably set it so that they won't,but her unreasonableness here would have the same effect
They practice doing things in Tel'aran'rhiod.I think we knew that a person didn't have to be a dreamer to manipulate it, but this confirms
Egwene's cheeks colour slightly at the thought of Galad
Shemerin is tobe reduced to accepted. Really, the Aes Sedai in the Tower should be regretting supporting Elaida by now and looking to replace her
Elayne gives Nere a necklace to compensate him for the cargo Nynaeve stole
But really, all of this could have been skipped
Chapter 50
It is clearly going to be hard for Nynaeve and Elayne to accept being treated like children again
The meetiing with the Aes Sedai is infuriating, but still kind of interesting
How do they test for Cuendillar?
Siuan tries to threaten Nynaeve to get accessto the ring ter'angreal, but Nynaeve is able to extort her to also beable to study her, Leane and Logain
How does Min only see glimpses around Marigan? Is she able to hide the visions somehow?
 

Aduiavas Ida

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Nynaeve says she is tired of being a coward.
I actually find this to be believable from Nynaeve here. She suffered a large shock and is now afraid to be back in Tel'aran'hriod, but she hates having to admit it. I also love how Elayne reacts to it, by going with her, no teasing or comments, just "I'll prove you are no coward, we'll go together". It shows the strength of their friendship, despite their differences.
Elaida is already messing up getting the Aes Sedai to return. Siuan has probably set it so that they won't,but her unreasonableness here would have the same effect
Elaida gets more and more unreasonable. The fact that she disbanded the Blue Ajah entirely pretty much makes sure that they can't just give up...
 

Toral Delvar

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It might be believable, but it is unreasonable.
No rational analysis of her actions - hunting the black ajah then going after one of the Forsaken could possibly be classed as cowardice
 

Aduiavas Ida

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You forget Nynaeve is a very uncertain woman. She is harder on herself than anyone else is. She is very self-conscious, and hides her uncertainty with her tongue lashings and easy dismissal of others.
 

Toral Delvar

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This is true. It is annoying from her, but nowhere near as we later get from Elayne. There's a fair amount from Perrin as well, not so much from Rand, but I think he just can't allow himself that sort of introspection, even if she is doing a terrible job of it. That was one of the things I most liked about Egwene in the books leading up to the finale- she was able to acurately assess her actions and take responsibility when, and only when it was her fault
This might be another thing I want to track - lack of self awareness/judging self by much harsher standards (or much more lenient) than the character applies to other people.
 

Toral Delvar

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Almost done with this book
Chapter 51
Just what is in those pipes that gives them a blue smoke?
Selande seems like a throwaway character, but we will see her again. She goes through a considerable amount of growth. He scares her off by talking about the Power. Later, she would still be terrified, but would try not to let it show and not to let her fear defeat her
He is atracting Hunters for the Horn who think it must be found near Rand. They are of course right, though too late
Berelain is coming up, she asked after Perrin
I probably shouldn't, but I find the way Rand taunts Colavaere to be amusing
Rand thinks Egwene is Aes Sedai now. I agree.
Why does Alviarin send a seperate letter to Elaida? What is she up to?
Rand says "I assume an Aes Sedai can't write a lie more easily than she can speak one" and doesn't wait for Moiraine's nod, but this is assuming an Aes Sedai cant nod a lie either
Mat's personal army is now calling itself the Band of the Red Hand. He says some fool got the name somewhere. Knowing Mat, I suspect he was the fool
Mat has heard Morgase is dead - the rumour doesn't seem based on much other than Gaebril has apparently been named king and Morgase has not been seen recently
Rand quite rightly feels guilty that he knew about Rahvin and did nothing. Rand decides on a raid on Caemlyn to kill Rahvin, but Moiraine says they must wait a day
Aviendha states she is as strong as Egwene - She gained strength really quickly
Rand is unreasonable in telling Egwene and Aviendha he doesn't want to take them, but they aren't much better
Another saying about men "stopping a man from doing what he wants to do is like taking a sweet from a child. Sometimes you have to do it, but sometimes it just isn't worth the trouble"
Mat wants to avoid it, but Rand won't let him
Melindhra tries to murder Mat, but she still veils herself. He survives, but again feels the dice in his head. Organising as Darkfriends among the Aiel must be hatf

Chapter 52
The Aiel agree he has to kill Rahvin because of Ji'e'toh
Rand has already founded his academy
Lanfear murders Kadere when he tells her Aviendha is sleeping with Rand. She doesn't know which one is Aviendha
Rand struggles against Lanfear, and worries that Lews Therin will take over. Memories of Ilyena interfere with his ability to fight back
Moiraine defeats her
All together, an exciting chapter

Chapter 53
Lan can't feel her - dead or stilled? I assume he didn't lose the connection when she went through the previous doorway
Sorilea says to Egwene "this is what happens when you let yourself be caught in a man's schemes" I have no idea why she would bring men into this
Aviendha says she has toh to Rand for saving her
Amys tells Rand he is a fool when he says Moiraine is dead. She doesn't say anything useful though
Lan has to leave, the bond has passed
His "Tell nynaeve I found someone else" is ridiculous. Even if she thought she would believe that, does he think he can avoid her for the next 30 years?
What is the one small thing Moiraine knows of that comes after - something to do with Thom?
The letter for Thom apparently has the details of the Aes Sedai who dealt with Owyn
Sulin makes him see some level of sense about letting the Maidens fight for him
The chapter ends with Mat telling him it is time to go
 
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Toral Delvar

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Chapter 54
It seems Amys heard the rumours of Rand and Avienda sleeping together, but the other Wise Ones didn't
The story seems to make a point of noting Pevin was with him
Asmodean tells him that if he comes out to close, Rahvin will sense it - how close?
When someone falls, where do they fall to? If they are off the platform, is there even air for them to breathe, or is it a total vaccuum? Is there gravity, so they continue to fall? Is that even a menaingful question if there is no atmosphere or real up or down?
Rand again tries to think who he really wants and come sup with Elayne, Min and Aviendha. Not sure why he later says he doesn't think of her like that - ishe trying to put her off? Not reveal himself? Does he forget?
How did the trollocs get into Caemlyn? How long had they been there?
Pevin is killed - what was his point?
Mat, Aviendha and Asmodean are also killed. We see smoke rising from Mat, so it seems the channeling hit him directly. Rand even thinks it hadn't saved him from a man's channeling
Nynaeve is trying to teach Siuan about Tel'aran'rhiod. It is not going well, though better than trying to teach the Aes Sedai who really don't like being told what to do, corrected or criticised. It sounds impossible to teach them anything useful
She has been adding sheeps-tongue root to make the sleeping potion taste worse
Faolain has been semi-raised. Still not Aes Sedai, but she is above the Accepted and has more freedom
Theodrin is trying to help Nynaeve break her block
Nynaeve taunts Siuan about Gareth and Siuan hits her. They fight
How does Birgitte get to sleep so quickly - it must have been less than a minute, so the potion must have been very strong
Moghedien basically turns Birgitte into a child. Nynaeve begs to get close to her then imagines an adam around her
Birgitte is able to find them because people who know they are in Tel'aran'rhiod can somehow be sensed
Moghedien tells them that the other Forsaken are trying to draw Rand to attack Sammael
Birgitte comments how Elayne's heart will break because she loves her mother. Apparently she picked this up from all that Elayne said, but not that Morgase was a queen
Birgitte comments on how Moghedien was never very brave unless she had the upper hand. Nynaeve thinks that also applies to her. Her next thought, the next sentance, is that they have to go to Caemlyn to try and help Rand
Chapter 55
A Rand goes through looking for Rahvin, he takes a little time to wallow in self pity
He kills a Myrdraal by freezing it
Rahvin attacks and they have a balefire fight. Rahvin started it
Rand sees the fading residue of the gateway Rahvin used and is able to copy it and follow Rahvin into Tel'aran'rhiod
Lews Therin tries to take over - how much of this is real, and how much madness?
Moghedien and Nynaeve argue, but Nynaeve breaks her will pretty easily.
Rahvin tries to change Rand into something that can't channel. He only fails because Nynaeve attacks him. He burns, but is able to ignore the pain. Rand balefires him
He asks Nynaeve to give Elayne the same message that Lan passed on. Rand also doesn't seem curiuos about Moghedien
Nyneave gives Moghedien Forkroot and tells her she will come for her
The Balefire brought back Mat, Aviendha and Asmodean - is this "die and live again once more a part of what was" (or whatever the exact thing they said to Mat). Did Pevin also get better? We don't hear from or about him again
Chapter 56
Rand thinks about Myrddraal "sometimes it was easy to believe the old tales that they rode shadows and could vanish by turning sideways" - isn't this basically true?
Bashere arrives. He has been hunting Taim, but Rand says he can't have him, as Rand wants him to train other men. Bashere accepts and says his 9000 men are Rand's until they hear from Tenobia
Asmodean is killed. This is a big mystery, and was for years, though I always thought it was soon made very obvious that it was Graendal. I do remember the discussions in the 90s and early 2000s with many highly implausible excuses why it probably wasn't, or some other character was the most likely culprit. At this stage, we just know it is someone he knows, that they are in Caemlyn, that they were able to kill him quickly and that they probably weren't waiting for him, so it was someone he just managed to stumble on because they had their own business there - they hadn't fled when Rand took the city.
We end with Morgase heading somewhere, full of arrogance
 

Aduiavas Ida

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Mat's personal army is now calling itself the Band of the Red Hand. He says some fool got the name somewhere. Knowing Mat, I suspect he was the fool
Considering the name comes from Manetheren, I suspect you are right :D
Lanfear murders Kadere when he tells her Aviendha is sleeping with Rand. She doesn't know which one is Aviendha
Good riddance. Note though, that she skins him alive with the Power. Lanfear sometimes seems like just a schemer like Moghedien, but she is just as dangerous if you go against her.
I wonder though, what happens to all the stuff on Kadere's wagons? Do all of those ter'angreal ever make it to the Tower? I don't think we ever hear about them again...
Sulin makes him see some level of sense about letting the Maidens fight for him
He won't stop beating himself up about it though :(
It seems Amys heard the rumours of Rand and Avienda sleeping together, but the other Wise Ones didn't
Amys knows Maiden hand-talk ;)
How did the trollocs get into Caemlyn? How long had they been there?
Same problem as in the Waste, and the Jengai Pass, though here I suspect they came via the Ways...
Nynaeve is trying to teach Siuan about Tel'aran'rhiod. It is not going well, though better than trying to teach the Aes Sedai who really don't like being told what to do, corrected or criticised. It sounds impossible to teach them anything useful
Aes Sedai already knows everything, thus they don't need to be taught :P :tug
Nynaeve taunts Siuan about Gareth and Siuan hits her. They fight
I always chuckle at this scene.
The Balefire brought back Mat, Aviendha and Asmodean - is this "die and live again once more a part of what was" (or whatever the exact thing they said to Mat).
I believe this is confirmed by Hawkwing in the final book...
 

Toral Delvar

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Very excited to get onto book 6,this was another of my favourites
 

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So, because I am so excited, thoughts from Demandred's and Nynaeve's point of view in the prologue
Just how many people are killed to produce swords? Demandred thinks he has never seen fewer than 50. Does he only come on sword making days? If there were always around that number, then that would mean hundreds per week at least, maybe thousands. Just how many people are abducted? While I can accept some "this is my land and I will stay", that seems extreme
How are the forgers made?
Shaidar Haran - not a normal Myrddraal
Demandred expects to rule under the Dark One for all time
Demandred tells the Dark One that Lanfear and Asmodean vanished. The Dark One seems to know more than him about Asmodean, We can rule out Demandred as the killer.
Demandred is uncomfortable about the idea of using balefire. He seems to get over this by the Last Battle.
Nynaeve is now willing to admit to herself shel likes fine clothes, and willing to deny to herself that she chooses colours based on what Lan likes
She is using Moghedien to channel and manages to sense something in Siuan or Leane for the first time
We earn Siuan and Leane can sense Moghedien. but not use the adam to do anything. This shocks Moghedien and gives Nynaeve hope
Elayne learns that they are sending an Embassy to Caemlyn. She is mad that they won't let her go, but that was a good decision
Perrin's battles against trollocs have come out as rumours of rebellion against Morgase
We are again told that Elayne has as much potential as anyone in a thousand years
Word of Rand's amnesty for men who can channel has come out, and they really dislike the idea
Nynaeve thinks Elayne never gives up and this is admitrable
Nynaeve thinks that the only good thing in Moiraine's death was that it freed Lan, but it shames her to find good - seems like her death finally forced Nynaeve to grow up and fully drop her childish grudge
There is now a Hall in Salidar, but Sheriam's circile is still more important
Elayne admits she was wrong pretty easily about how many they are sending
Nynaeve tries to learnabout using different weaves for differnet illnesses, but Moghedien knows nothing of Healing
 

Toral Delvar

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And the rest of the prologue. A lot happens here
The girls have been learning from Moghedien and passing it off as their own discoveries, including becoming invisible, and listening to people. They have hidden some things, inverting, hiding ability to channel and disguising.
Elayne has had some success making Ter'angreal, but more failures
It seems likely that some of the Aes Sedai already had their own versions of some of the weaves - how much more could have been acheived if they weren't so secretive?
Elayne thinks Min does not know about Birgitte or Moghedien - why doesn't she see images? She does later unmask her by seeing images around her.

People are coming to Perrin with their problems, expecting him to pass judgement as Lord. He avoids it, leaving it mostly to Faile, who does it as she feels it is her duty
Cenn complains about a Taraboner tile maker. I still wonder where the tiles for the Winespring Inn came from
Apparently it is seven generations since the Two Rivers saw a representative from Caemlyn
Young men and boys have been going out to see the world
Faile has introduced irrigation to the Two Rivers
Faile chased Calle Coplin out of their manor because she was hoping to entice Perrin. She thinks he didn't notice, but I believe she is wrong
Perrin can feel Rand needs him

Gawyn sucks
Gawyn thinks he stayed with the Tower because of Elayne and Egwene
Gawyn hears a rumour that Morgase and Elayne are dead and that Rand killed them and decides to believe it and to start hating Rand
Katerina knows Galina is Black. She isnt part of her heart or one extra
The White Tower Aes Sedai are allying with the Shaido, though not in any way that can be trusted.

Sevanna has been chosen as a Wise One, despite never going to Rhuidean. Most of them go along with it, except Desaine
A Wetlander man gave her a cube and said to use it when they have Rand. We can probably tell at this point it was one of the Forsaken.

Morgase thinks that if she didn't know better, she would think Gaebril had used the Power on her
She tries to get Ailron to agree to help and thinks it is working, but Nial says he will never agree and offers his own men
A young Andoran man, Paitr Conel from Market Sheran comes to see him. The Darkfriend from the Eye of the World

Nial tells Morgase that Rand is a false dragon - he believes this
He tells Carridin that Altara and Murandy are to be tormented by Dragonsworn - part of his plan to turn people against Rand

The Forsaken meet and talk. they mention the need for Angreal and look at mesaana - she must have access
Demandred tells them they are to let Rand rule
Osangar and Arangar are Forsaken in new bodies - Aginor and Balthamel. I remember many people not liking this, but there seems little point naming the Dark One "Lord of the Grave' if he can't do this. Where did the bodies come from?
Osangar tries to give Shaidar Haran and order, but it doesn't work
 

Toral Delvar

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I sorted started the next few chapters. I really liked the arrival of Mazrim Taim, and how right from the start, Jordan laid out the idea that he might be Demandred in disguise, or that he would play a similar role as Demandred did - someone driven to join the Shadow basically because of jealousy, though I think we eventually find out this isn't true.
 

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Not according the Companion
demand red was the one who freed him and gave him a choice “join or die”, so he was already a dark friend when he met Rand
However, I do think his resentment of Rand plays into his actions
 

Aduiavas Ida

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Even on my first read-through, I don't think I liked him. The revelations of what he had done that we find in the later books is horrifying. I suppose introducing a concept like Turning and then never using it except as a threat wasn't good enough... Taim is crafty, whatever else he is. He deserves his Chosen status imo.
 

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A lot of talking in these chapters, but unlike FoH, it does feel like something is happening
Chapter 1
Rand practicing the sword a lot. Don't really know what's going on here. TBasjhere really is too much chance one of them could accidentally kill him
Bashere seems a little unstable. Is he really tht confident that Rand would be able to stop him?
The nobles who were sycophants for Rahvin are now sycophants for Rand. He doesn't think they knew, but would use them anyway if he did, which sickens him
Such a great cliffhanger
Chapter 2
Rand estimates Taim to be about 35. I believe RJ said somewhere that he is younger than that and looks older than he is because of his recent circimstances
Bashere has shaved. This is actually pretty uncommon, most people cling to their culture
Taim is remarkably calm, leading Rand to wonder if he could be a little mad
Perhaps not wise to mention what happened to Musar and Hachari, but I have no sympathy for them. Another instance where we got some information outside the books, this wasn't compulsion
Taim had thought to have a compact, rather than submitting, and Rand loses his temper at this. Taim submits
Im not convinced that Taim fully believes Rand is the Dragon Reborn, at least from what he says
He gives Rand another Seal to get Rand to trust him (I think he gets this from Demandred)
Bashere's reason for following Rand is simple, "the world must follow you, or those who survive will wish themselves dead" - if only more people accepted this
Rand mentions the farm, and only responds to Taim's question about it on the third attempt, when Taim is growing angry
Chapter 3
They go to the farm, Maidens first. Aviendha wants to come, but he doesn't let her. The Maidens disaprove
Rand thinks he would be happy to see knowledge of balefire vanish from the world
Jur Grady says he is wanting to go home, but Rand shames him into stayinh
Damer is the first man tested and can learn. At this time, Rand is thinking of him as Damer, not Flinn (the same with all the others)
Rand thinks there might be 1000 Aes Sedai, Taim not quite so many
When Taim asks about a sa'angreal, Rand snaps at him
Taim seems shaken when Rand says a Forsaken might try to pose as a student
Another men/women saying "Men believe the worst easy and women believe it hides something still darker"
Chapter 4
Enaila and a Leiran flirt with each other by insulting their societies
The plains of Maredo doesn't have much wood, but does have dried ox dung - are there wild ox?
Rand tells a joke. It isn't particularly funny, but it does feel odd they didn't even get the point
Lews Therin's mad chatter seems an almost constant now. Rand tells him to be quiet and he does
Darlin and some other High Lords have rebelled and claimed Rand is a false Dragon
Rand sentances them to death unless they change their minds and surrender
Sammael is sending up camps. Rand had a plan to defeat them, Weiramon thinks they can do it easily
Apparerently Enaila and Somara don't realise they are mothering Rand
 
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